Does "God" Exist?

[simonheros]

Explain to me the "science" behind Science.
If you can "prove" that no God exists using science, then you can "prove" the science behind science.

>science behind Science
What? Are you asking what the logic is behind of science?

Science (in my definition) is the studies of reality.

In the dictionary it is "knowledge covering general truths of the operation of general laws, esp. as obtained and tested through scientific method [and] concerned with the physical world."

So the science behind "Science" is that common logic is understood to make sense of the world beyond the factors of how things work and how we comprehend nature. (I think I answered your question?)

---
Also I can prove that God doesn't "exist".

1. God is a being, known as the creator of the "world" being the first being "alive".

Through studies, we understand that evolution occurred thousands of years ago with none other than bacteria and micro-organisms that eventually evolved into more complex species (dinosaurs). Think of it like this- in basic biology you understand that organs make organ systems, so that cells adapt in their genetic code to work together and function. Dinosaurs were thought of the first species to walk the Earth (I understand there are many era's but you get the message), denying the thoughts of a male humanoid "created" the world when humans weren't even alive then.

2. God being a male.

In short- people made him up as a figure to believe in. He's a male because back in the day people were sexist thinking men where superior.

3. God is a "living" being.

Denied. There is no evidence of any such thing as a being that can perform miracles, just illusions deluded from ignorant minds who can't face reality. People who seek for hope believe in lies.

Oh please, don't give me that Bible ____.

[BuildistGuard]

(No Bumping Intended)
Actually, Evolution happens over Millions or Billions of years Simonheroes. Sure sometimes it may take thousands of years for some Organisms to evolve, but usually it takes Millions of years bro. Watch Carl Sagan's Cosmos and you will learn.

[Leonartist]

How can inteligent life just randomly exist all by its self? The odds would be VERY VERY high. There has to be a god.

[Paradox]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

[Leonartist]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

Looks like my signature... ,but I don`t get the picture.

[Qwertygiy]

How can inteligent life just randomly exist all by its self? The odds would be VERY VERY high. There has to be a god.

Well, it didn't just randomly exist all by itself.

I attempted to do some math to figure out how many organisms would ever have lived on the Earth and how many beneficial mutations they would have had in total, but I'm afraid the algebra was too complex for me, because the numbers I ended up with were either less than the amount of people currently living in China or an insanely large amount more than the number of atoms in the Universe, and I'm pretty certain neither of them are correct answers.

So instead of trying to do that, let me try to use logic. I'm much better at logic than math.

3 and a half billion years ago, at which it is universally agreed among scientists that there was life on Earth (it could have been sooner), there was organic matter and water covering the planet. There were volcanoes and meteors crashing into the world, bringing more material, and heating and mixing up what was already there. In addition, those volcanoes created static electricity in their ash clouds, creating monster lightning storms, and the tidal pull of the moon was also much stronger.

All it takes is just once have the right amino acids in the right place at the right time in over half a billion years (that's 1,825,000,000 modern days!) for lightning to strike a heated pool in the shadow of a volcano to have a self-reproducing molecule of RNA form.

This RNA will be exposed to the same fury of the elements that created it, and plenty of it will mutate and decay into unusable forms that are broken back down into amino acids without the ability to reproduce itself. But eventually all it takes is one molecule of RNA to shift into a more stable form of molecule, known as DNA, make itself a sealed container, and you have the first single-celled organism.

This first cell can then reproduce much more successfully than the exposed molecules, but the process is not perfect. There will still be common mutations. These mutations will destroy many creatures, but a few will find an advantage.

There were plenty of things that, had they not happened, would have prevented intelligent life as we know it from forming. Early Earth's atmosphere was methane. It was the photosynthesis of early bacteria that converted the atmosphere to oxygen, which can be broken down to get much more energy more efficiently than using sunlight and water. At some point, inside the cell wall another wall appeared to protect the DNA and keep it separate from the other goings-on in the cell and this became a nucleus. Some cell with a nucleus ate a cell without a nucleus, and these eaten cells became mitochondria and chloroplasts, which are in just about every multicellular organism today to help them get energy. A huge extinction occurred about 500 million years ago or so, I forget the exact time period, killing 90% of all life forms then existing, killing off many of the varied, exotic species. Most of the more familiar ones, including reptiles, survived. These reptiles then dominated the planet for several hundred million years in the Mesozoic Era as dinosaurs. Warm-blooded mammals evolved, but were kept tiny by the monstrous dinosaurs. When the dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago, mammals survived, and then became the dominant group of animals.

Primates evolved from these mammals, and the thumb was their huge advantage. In humans, a detrimental mutation occurred in the jaw -- human beings have much, much less jaw muscle than a gorilla or chimpanzee. However, this lack of jaw muscle made room for much larger brains. These larger brains and thumbs are the biggest reason why we have taken over the world instead of, for example, dolphins. Eventually we developed language and tools and fire, and this led directly to all other "intelligent" features of humans, such as agriculture and writing.


These are an awful lot of unlikely happenings, but how exactly do you fit a God into it? Did he manipulate the amino acids into the first molecule of RNA, and then manipulate the molecules of RNA into DNA, and then the DNA into cells, then the cells into large creatures, and then from there on out? We have proof that all this happened. But why would God, who is supposedly omnipotent and all-powerful, go through all this trouble over all this time? It's taken 3.5 billion years to go from DNA to homo sapiens. If a god was involved, especially one such as described in the Bible, he could have done it a lot more simply and quickly.


The power of intelligence is something altogether. Whether there's something in the works there, neither I nor anyone else I'm aware of can say for sure. But once you accept that intelligence can exist, whether or not a God is involved, it doesn't seem that a God was involved in getting us to it.

Of course, I've said in the past that logic and religion are like cheesecake and pizza. You can eat one one day and the other the next, you can have one for lunch and one for dinner, you can have one for dinner and the other for dessert, but no sane person can eat both at the same time and come out thinking he's had a fine meal.

In other words, if you want to believe firmly in your religion as your scriptures say, that's fine, but all those scriptures were written in the same time as people thought the world was flat, that giants and trolls and mermaids existed, that lead plates made for fine dining and that the Earth was the center of the entire Universe.

[Chaos]

How can inteligent life just randomly exist all by its self? The odds would be VERY VERY high. There has to be a god.

That's a common conclusion for the unknown.

It never randomly existed. Humans and everything else are made from atoms that have evolved. Here's a good example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q55z6EsL8M

[Jacob__mybb_import1]

How can inteligent life just randomly exist all by its self? The odds would be VERY VERY high. There has to be a god.

The odds of intelligent life appearing randomly are irrelevant, since if intelligent life did not exist, we wouldn't be here to have this debate. There could be a 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance of it happening, and we just got really lucky.

[Kieron]

Most of the people who have posted on this thread have claimed to be agnostic. Jacob seems to be the only one supporting that claim.

---

How can inteligent life just randomly exist all by its self? The odds would be VERY VERY high. There has to be a god.

Well, it didn't just randomly exist all by itself.

I attempted to do some math to figure out how many organisms would ever have lived on the Earth and how many beneficial mutations they would have had in total, but I'm afraid the algebra was too complex for me, because the numbers I ended up with were either less than the amount of people currently living in China or an insanely large amount more than the number of atoms in the Universe, and I'm pretty certain neither of them are correct answers.

So instead of trying to do that, let me try to use logic. I'm much better at logic than math.

3 and a half billion years ago, at which it is universally agreed among scientists that there was life on Earth (it could have been sooner), there was organic matter and water covering the planet. There were volcanoes and meteors crashing into the world, bringing more material, and heating and mixing up what was already there. In addition, those volcanoes created static electricity in their ash clouds, creating monster lightning storms, and the tidal pull of the moon was also much stronger.

All it takes is just once have the right amino acids in the right place at the right time in over half a billion years (that's 1,825,000,000 modern days!) for lightning to strike a heated pool in the shadow of a volcano to have a self-reproducing molecule of RNA form.

This RNA will be exposed to the same fury of the elements that created it, and plenty of it will mutate and decay into unusable forms that are broken back down into amino acids without the ability to reproduce itself. But eventually all it takes is one molecule of RNA to shift into a more stable form of molecule, known as DNA, make itself a sealed container, and you have the first single-celled organism.

This first cell can then reproduce much more successfully than the exposed molecules, but the process is not perfect. There will still be common mutations. These mutations will destroy many creatures, but a few will find an advantage.

There were plenty of things that, had they not happened, would have prevented intelligent life as we know it from forming. Early Earth's atmosphere was methane. It was the photosynthesis of early bacteria that converted the atmosphere to oxygen, which can be broken down to get much more energy more efficiently than using sunlight and water. At some point, inside the cell wall another wall appeared to protect the DNA and keep it separate from the other goings-on in the cell and this became a nucleus. Some cell with a nucleus ate a cell without a nucleus, and these eaten cells became mitochondria and chloroplasts, which are in just about every multicellular organism today to help them get energy. A huge extinction occurred about 500 million years ago or so, I forget the exact time period, killing 90% of all life forms then existing, killing off many of the varied, exotic species. Most of the more familiar ones, including reptiles, survived. These reptiles then dominated the planet for several hundred million years in the Mesozoic Era as dinosaurs. Warm-blooded mammals evolved, but were kept tiny by the monstrous dinosaurs. When the dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago, mammals survived, and then became the dominant group of animals.

Primates evolved from these mammals, and the thumb was their huge advantage. In humans, a detrimental mutation occurred in the jaw -- human beings have much, much less jaw muscle than a gorilla or chimpanzee. However, this lack of jaw muscle made room for much larger brains. These larger brains and thumbs are the biggest reason why we have taken over the world instead of, for example, dolphins. Eventually we developed language and tools and fire, and this led directly to all other "intelligent" features of humans, such as agriculture and writing.


These are an awful lot of unlikely happenings, but how exactly do you fit a God into it? Did he manipulate the amino acids into the first molecule of RNA, and then manipulate the molecules of RNA into DNA, and then the DNA into cells, then the cells into large creatures, and then from there on out? We have proof that all this happened. But why would God, who is supposedly omnipotent and all-powerful, go through all this trouble over all this time? It's taken 3.5 billion years to go from DNA to homo sapiens. If a god was involved, especially one such as described in the Bible, he could have done it a lot more simply and quickly.


The power of intelligence is something altogether. Whether there's something in the works there, neither I nor anyone else I'm aware of can say for sure. But once you accept that intelligence can exist, whether or not a God is involved, it doesn't seem that a God was involved in getting us to it.

Of course, I've said in the past that logic and religion are like cheesecake and pizza. You can eat one one day and the other the next, you can have one for lunch and one for dinner, you can have one for dinner and the other for dessert, but no sane person can eat both at the same time and come out thinking he's had a fine meal.

In other words, if you want to believe firmly in your religion as your scriptures say, that's fine, but all those scriptures were written in the same time as people thought the world was flat, that giants and trolls and mermaids existed, that lead plates made for fine dining and that the Earth was the center of the entire Universe.

You should know, that is all just a theory. There is no evidence backing up the world is 3 1/2 billion years old, as we don't have time machines to know.

[Qwertygiy]

We have proof that it takes X amount of time for half of a specific amount of uranium to decay into lead -- I believe it's 4.5 billion years.

Therefore, by comparing the amount of lead to the amount of uranium in any given rock, we can tell roughly how old it is. It's like looking at an hourglass that doesn't flow smoothly, but gets slower as there's less sand in the top half pushing down into the bottom. You can tell how long ago that the clock was started by comparing the amount of sand in the bottom half to the amount of sand in the top half.

We have found zircon crystals that, using this method, date back nearly 4.5 billion years. We have found meteorites from the asteroid belt and Mars that date back nearly 4.5 billion years.

So while we only have circumstantial evidence that the world existed 3.5 billion years ago, in the same way we only have circumstantial evidence that the world existed 100 years ago either. The American Revolutionary War, the Renaissance, the Spanish-American war, the dinosaurs, who can say they actually happened and are not just things put there in their existing physical form and memories when God created the world and all the people in it in what we call the year 1912?